Toward an XPath API
|How should XML-DEV proceed with developing SAXPath? Are there lessons already learned that should be pointed out? Let us know what your thoughts are.|
While the XML-DEV storms of the last few weeks show little sign of abating, some developers have been discussing the potential for an XPath API.
Over the last few weeks the XML-Deviant has reported on a number of controversies surrounding the recent activities of the W3C, and a rise in the complexity and interdependence between specifications forming the "XML family".
The debates have continued this week. Threads on XML-DEV have discussed a possible "fork in the road" of XML's development. The press has reacted with articles like "Why 90% of XML Standards Will Fail" and "The relentless march of abstraction".
Simon St.Laurent noted that the current discussions echo the "Simplified XML" debate that raised hackles on XML-DEV at the end of 1999. Leading to the formation of the SML-DEV mailing list, the split also lead to the "Common XML Specification" and the appearance of simple tools like Pyxie.
Michael Champion, a long term member of SML-DEV, summarized the differences between the previous debate and the current one.
In the "SML" debates a year ago, I had the sense that lots of hard-core XML geeks really understood the big picture, and the "simpletons" were only arguing that it shouldn't be *necessary* for everyone to understand the more obscure bits of XML to move forward with it. Now I sense serious frustration as another year has gone by without a Schema Recommendation, widespread uncertainty, confusion, and contention about what "post-schema validation info sets" mean even among the geekiest of the XML geeks, and no public complaint as new "standards" efforts splinter off from the W3C (e.g., TREX and JDOM). In other words, I'm getting the sinking feeling that it's no longer *possible* to understand the big picture.
I think there's widespread agreement as to the broad outlines of a solution -- refactorization, simplification, modularization... My all time favorite XML- DEV post came from Tim Bray in early January...: "the lesson the Web teaches, reinforced by XML, is that the way forward lies in Daring To Do Less".
Whether XML will "fork" is unclear. That it's been over-hyped is probably true, but it is certainly no less useful because of that. That it's already had a great deal of success is without doubt. As Champion notes, the solution relies on breaking the whole down into manageable chunks. One way to achieve this is to produce useful tools that are interchangeable and modular, even if that modularity isn't reflected in the core specifications to the satisfaction of all.
During the discussion following the publication of Simon St.Laurent's article "XML Ain't What It Used To Be" on XML.com last week, Joe English remarked that
XSLT, XQuery, XPointer, and XLink all rely on XPath. Now XPath is a perfect match for XSLT, but IMO it's much more powerful than what is needed for the others. The extra power has a price: it makes it harder to implement the specs built on top of it. Sometimes implementors can leverage existing work, but not always -- for example, you can't just take Saxon's XPath implementation (which is one of the best) and plug it into Kweelt (one of the more promising XQuery-like implementations); the internal data structures are far too different.
These comments struck a chord with Charles Reitzel who made a proposal to the XML-DEV members.
XPath isn't XML, so none of the XML tools work on it. That said, it appears that parsing and interpreting XPath expressions is becoming more and more important in its own right.
Proposal: let's give XPath the SAX treatment.
By the "SAX treatment" Reitzel means the development of the SAX API as a joint effort of the XML-DEV community. His proposal was well-received. Thomas Passin believed that the effort should be extended to include XPointer, anticipating a future similar need for that specification. Passin suggested that some requirements engineering would be needed to determine the benefits that such an API might bring.
... We need some requirements engineering here. Especially, what would the API be used for? SAX lets us use a parser without having to know how to talk to each different one. What do we want to use our XPath/XPointer API for?
Here are some general kinds of things:
These are quite different, and it might not be feasible to accomplish all of them. We need to work out what would be valuable. Let's remember the 80-20 proposition!
- Parse and process the XPointer syntax. This would be useful for developers to create XPointer applications and toolkits.
- Return node-sets. This is more like a query capability, and would be more useful for application writers.
- Construct XPointer expressions based on some existing tree (fragment).
- Construct XPointer expressions based on a schema (fragment?)
Noting that the DOM Working Group have been wrestling with a similar task, Michael Champion outlined a number of the issues to consider when designing such an API.
That sounds like a good idea. The DOM working group has been struggling with this for awhile, though, and you should at least be aware of the problems. Not being hindered by the various non-technical constraints that the W3C faces/imposes, perhaps we can do better here.
Although there were no disagreements about the utility of such an API, which Robin Berjon called "SAXPath", suggestions on how to tackle the design were varied. David Megginson believed a tree-based API similar to the DOM would be most suitable.
I'd actually recommend giving XPath the DOM treatment. Well, not really DOM, but maybe a cleaner, in-memory tree. XPaths (even hairy ones) are extremely small, and the same path object is likely to be reused many times, so I see no need to force the pain of an event-based interface on users (unless someone thinks we're going to be seeing gigabyte-long XPath expressions).
Others were more interested in an event-based API. In fact Sean McGrath, advocated producing an XML version of XPath and using the existing SAX API.
It's me, Mr. Layers back again. Why not XPath -> [Well Formed] XML and then a SAX API for it just drops out?
This suggestion has been floating around for some time, most recently toward the end of last year. However, while this would certainly reuse existing work, it's unclear whether the SAX API would be as good a fit as one defined specifically for XPath. Charles Reitzel preferred to see the layering the other way around, with the SAXPath API being used to generate XML events if required.
In theory, you could generate an XML equivalent to the XPath expression and parse that. Question, how do you generate the XML? I think you'll need to parse the XPath first. Better to define an internal representation of the XPath expression and parse/emit any supported syntax. If that syntax uses XML, then SAX is a great implementation strategy, but not a useful API for XPath expressions by itself.
Parallels were also drawn with the Simple API for CSS (SAC). Robin Berjon, implementor of a recently released Perl version of SAC, suggested that both event and tree-based APIs might be useful in different situations, something which has certainly proved to be the case for XML processors.
I think both can be useful. What I've got in mind is the building of custom objects based on the content of an XPath expression. I've been down the "XPath OM" path before by hacking an interface onto Matt Sergeant's XML::XPath module. It can be very useful, but not as useful in some contexts as a builder callback style interface. Converting an object model into another is often harder than simply handling builder events. That's why CSS has SAC and DOM2 ... interfaces. Both are useful, but anyone wishing, say, to build a custom selector object to get elements out of his own type of tree will probably use SAC.
It would be good to maintain the early interest in SAXPath in order to formulate a suitable solution to these issues. There is likely to be lots of prior art that can be mined for additional ideas. Implementations of XPath can be found in many open source XSLT engines, and thus it's likely that if an API can be agreed upon, implementations would follow very quickly.
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