Article:		Parsing RSS At All Costs
Subject:		Robustness Principle
Date:		2003-01-23 10:40:11
From:		Mark Pilgrim
Response to: Breaking Industry Standards A Competitive Advantage?
This has nothing to do with the tragedy of the commons (boy, there's an overused phrase). It has everything to do with the Robustness Principle that Postel nailed years ago in RFC 793: "TCP implementations will follow a general principle of robustness: be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others." The same applies here: validators and programs that produce RSS should be as conservative as possible; end user tools that consume RSS should be as liberal as possible. They serve different masters. I'm tired of arguing with you, Dare. Despite your misrepresentation, we can all see for ourselves that my article clearly demonstrates an actual problem, describes a workaround for consuming tools, and pushes for not one but two long-term social solutions (the centralized advocacy effort at Syndic8, and the decentralized solution of making non-well-formedness visible to the end user). Meanwhile, it's ironic that you hold up Microsoft as the epitome of XML standards compliance. What short memories we have! Have a quick look back in the XML mailing list archives to see all the confusion their ultra-liberal MSXML parser caused with people who mistook it for an actual validating XML parser. ("Whatdya mean my XML's not well-formed? It looks fine when I open it in IE!") That was not the place to parse at all costs; this is.

Previous Message

Up

Next Message

• You Prove My Point
  2003-01-23 11:11:58 Dare Obasanjo [Reply]
  
  Actually a number of our customers regularly praise the standards compliance of MSXML.

  
  Unfortunately, we also have customers who mistakenly assume that viewing XML in Internet Explorer causes it to be processed by the validating XML parser instead of the well-formed XML parser which is not the case. This design decision was before my time but was most likely motivated by good intentions similar to yours about reducing user pain and ensuring that even invalid but well-formed XML was viewable in the browser. No one thought to think about what would happen downstream when people assumed that

  
  viewable in IE == well-formed & validated XML

  
  instead of just

  
  viewable in IE == well-formed XML

  
  Your attempted slur actually helps bolster my point as to why your article should not be encouraging supposedly "user-friendly" but standards unconformant behavior.
  
  

  • xml dev posts?
    2003-01-24 03:35:19 bryan rasmussen [Reply]
    
    This reminds me of a post on xml-dev where some guy named Tim Bray talked about using MSXML to prove to people that their xml was not well-formed, it was an off-hand remark, but he said something along the lines of that people usually grasped that xml was not well-formed when he had them open it in IE and it told them there was a problem.

    
    Of course I don't know if this Tim Bray character might be someone to listen to. probably not, but still, just saying.